Champions League: 10 talking points

Champions League: 10 talking points

Guardian writers: Short sleeves in the spotlight, Rafael Benitez's tactical blunder and time for change at Celtic Park

Champions League: 10 talking points from the midweek action

Featuring short sleeves in the spotlight, Rafa Benitez's tactical blunder and time for change at Celtic Park

Joe Hart, Jose Mourinho, Edinson Cavani and Shinji Kagawa were all to the fore this week. Photograph: Getty/Rex

1) Will Flamini's catwalk contribution continue to go unappreciated?

Well, that was an odd little sub-plot at the end of Arsenal's win over Marseille, but there was no hiding Arsene Wenger's displeasure with Mathieu Flamini. Or, indeed, the curt nature of the response. "I've been playing at the top level for ten years," Flamini said. "I like to wear short sleeves, that's what I like to do." Manager and player were both, well, a bit shirty.
This one may run. Unless, of course, Flamini realises Arsenal are too proud a club to have someone messing with their traditions. For his last two games he has taken a pair of scissors and turned his long-sleeve shirt into a short-sleeve top. Before and after the Manchester United game it led to a stand-up row with the kit-man, Vic Akers. Someone was also sufficiently aggrieved with Flamini to leak the story, not least because these were the poppy shirts, to be auctioned after the match. Yet Flamini repeated the trick against Marseille and Wenger – terse and unsmiling – spoke like a man who regarded it as a personal affront. "I do not like that and he will not do that again," he said. "I was surprised he did that; we don't want that."
All very petty and ridiculous, of course, but Arsenal's rule is that the players must all wear the same length sleeve and that it is selected before every game by the captain. Perhaps Flamini could take the example of Olivier Giroud, who rolled up his sleeves rather than indulge in a bit of DIY tailoring. Flamini appears to have taken it as a question of pride. He should probably realise that if he does the same again it would be seen as an insult to his club. That really is the long and short of it. Daniel Taylor
• Match report: Arsenal 2-0 Marseille
• Pictures: all the best moments from the Emirates
• Wenger gives Flamini a dressing down
• As it happened: our MBM report
• Video: 'Marseille did not threaten us', says Wenger

2) Does Benítez now face the ultimate ignomy?

On a scale of one to the bleeding obvious, stating that Borussia Dortmund are dangerous on the counterattack ranks somewhere alongside grass being green, water being wet and season two of The Wire being the best the show had to offer. With this in mind, it is reasonable to expect a coach of Rafael Benítez's ilk to ready his side for a yellow and black blur of counterattacking football, lining them up in a defensive format that limits Dortmund's ability to hit on the break.
Instead he discarded his usual approach and opted for an offensively offensive lineup that included José Callejón, Dries Mertens, Goran Pandev and Gonzalo Higuaín with the result that his side were swiflty punished. Two of Dortmund's goals came via some swashbuckling counterattacks and there would have been a lot more if the Germans had not been so profligate in front of goal and Pepe Reina had not earned his coin. Given that Napoli were on 9 points before the game – three ahead of Dortmund – this was not a game that I Ciucciarelli had to win so much as a game that they had not to lose. However Benítez got his tactics wrong and his side may now suffer the most ignoble of all the shames: playing in the Europa League. Ian McCourt
• Match report: Dortmund 3-1 Napoli
• Video: Benítez says he is proud of performance

3) Time for change at Celtic

Neil Lennon has dropped hints before about the need for extra quality in his Celtic squad but that point was rendered even more pertinent as Milan took the Scottish champions apart and ended their European campaign. In January, Celtic should begin the quest to properly prepare a squad for next season's Champions League.
With Fraser Forster set to depart Glasgow as a necessity to continue his rise to international prominence, there is also an argument for Celtic moving on Georgios Samaras and Kris Commons; both have failed to perform in this season's Champions League despite great expectations. No manager likes to overhaul a team but the evolution of this current Celtic side may make change a necessity. Joe Ledley, out of contract in the summer, could also free up decent wages for more effective performers. Ewan Murray
• Match report: Celtic 0-3 AC Milan
• Video: Celtic lacked quality, says Lennon
• Ewan Murray: Lennon not helped by lack of recruitment
• Uefa act over Celtic banners

4) A rethink for reds after harsh punishment for Ajax?

Ajax were two goals to the good when Ricardo van Rhijn's stray back pass caught Jöel Veltman off guard and landed at the feet of Neymar. The Barcelona forward touched the ball goalward and into the box only to be chopped down by Veltman. The result was the to-be-expected penalty and the to-be-expected red card for the defender. This is not the first time this has happened but it should be the last. A double punishment for a single offense is far too harsh and runs the risk of spoiling the sport as a spectacle. How many times have you seen a team reduced to 10 men in such a fashion, park the bus for the rest of the game and eliminate any element of excitement ot the contest? (Of course, there could be exceptions to this e.g. if the tackle is dangerous, then the player must walk – that was not so with Veltman.) It is not the most ridiculous rule in football – that is the yellow card for removing a jersey when celebrating – but it is high time that the rule-makers reconsidered their approach to this type of malfeasance. Ian McCourt
• Match report: Ajax 2-1 Barcelona
• Gerardo Martino demands higher intensity from Barcelona
• Ajax fan seriously injured in fall after celebrating goal
• Video: Ajax denied Barcelona chance to play, says De Boer

5) There will be repercussions for inconsistency at Chelsea

At the moment the only thing predictable about Chelsea is their unpredictability. A team who had utterly dominated West Ham United at Upton Park last Saturday were made to look distinctly ordinary by Basel at St Jakob-Park. It had been over a decade since the Londoners last failed to muster a single shot on target in a European game and, even with qualification confirmed by Schalke's inability to beat Steaua Bucharest, it was all the more galling for Jose Mourinho to endure because the Swiss had already scythed his side down once already in the group. The aftermath brought an acknowledgement from the manager that more changes should have been instigated after the Boleyn Ground, and that many of his players may struggle to play successive high-intensity games in the cluttered Christmas programme to come. There was an acceptance from the players, also, some in their number may just have offered Mourinho an excuse to chop and change for the weekend visit of Southampton.
"No, we couldn't complain (if he did that)," said Cesar Azpilicueta, one of the team's more consistent performers in Switzerland. "The manager decides, and it depends on how he sees us and the way we have performed. The team is a little bit tired, but that's normal." The Spaniard pointed to inconsistency as the reason the side "has lost a lot of games this season and, for Chelsea, that is not possible". At present, it is.
Maybe the consistency of performance during Mourinho's first spell in south-west London was born of strength, both mental and physical, and experience up and down the side's spine. The current crop relies on flair players to make the difference, and eking the best from them every week is proving problematic. But that is what the Portuguese must do if Chelsea really are to challenge on every front. This was a slapdash way to qualify for the knock-out phase. Mourinho will hope that, by the time the competition resumes in the new year, his charges are less prone to such inconsistency. Dominic Fifield
• Match report: Basel 1-0 Chelsea
• Pictures: All the best images from Basel
• Mourinho admits Chelsea were tired
• Video: Mourinho furious at gifting Basel the win

6) Bayern on course to make history

Everyone knows Bayern Munich are an excellent team but the question ahead of this week's round of matches was could they do it on a freezing Wednesday night in Moscow? Of course they could, with the holders securing a 3-1 triumph at CSKA that doubled up as a moment of history given it made Bayern the first ever side to win 10 successive Champions League fixtures. The victory was lit up by a brilliant goal by Mario Götze, which saw the midfielder dribble past three players before hitting a low, fizzing drive into the bottom corner of the CSKA net, and, as things stand, it is hard not to think that having created one piece of history, Bayern will achieve another by becoming the first club to win back-to-back Champions League titles. Sachin Nakrani
• Match report: CSKA Moscow 1-3 Bayern Munich

7) Drogba's final stand

Didier Drogba went into Galatasaray's match at Real Madrid looking to secure his 49th goal in European competitions – putting him level with Real legend Alfredo di Stefano – but failed to get on the scoresheet and was part of a team beaten 4-1. The Turkish club now sit third in Group B, two points behind Juventus ahead of a home match against the Italian champions. It is, then, win or bust for Galatasaray on 10 December and, should they fail to triumph, possibly the last time Drogba will feature in the Champions League. The 35-year-old's contract with the club expires in the summer and he may well see that as the right time to retire. It would be something of a shame if one of Europe's most fearsome forwards of recent times does not depart with a bang. Sachin Nakrani
• Match report: Real Madrid 4-1 Galatasaray

8) Shakhtar the entertainers on the brink

Of all the teams that remain in danger of missing out on the Champions League knockout stages few, if any, are as thrilling as Shakhtar Donetsk, seen in the manner of their 4-0 victory over Real Socieded. Having started slowly, the Ukrainian club eventually went into fast-forward mode, scoring their opening goal on 37 minutes from a quickly-taken corner, with Luiz Adriano flicking Douglas Costa's cross in at the near post, and dominating proceedings with light-fast attacks thereafter. In the blitz came two goals from Costa himself, the first of which a stunning drive from the edge of the Sociedad area. Shakhtar sit just one point ahead of Bayer Leverkusen ahead of the final round of Group A matches, which sees Mircea Lucescu's men travel to already-qualified Manchester United and Leverkusen face definitely-bottom Sociedad in San Sebastian. There is sure to be quite a few neutrals who hope Shakhtar do enough to keep hold of second place. Sachin Nakrani
• Match report: Shakhtar Donetsk 4-0 Real Socieded

9) Kagawa and Rooney give Moyes food for thought

David Moyes had tongue firmly planted in cheek when claiming Ryan Giggs is showing signs of improvement two days shy of his 40th birthday, but not when insisting the "best is still to come" from this Manchester United team after their 5-0 rout of Bayer Leverkusen. The result was as unexpected as Leverkusen's flimsy resistance and lack of self-belief but, in Moyes's eyes, it has set a standard he expects to be maintained. It will be interesting to see if he persists with Wayne Rooney as the front-line striker and Shinji Kagawa in-behind in the interests of consistency. The pair combined intuitively at the BayArena and showed their roles at Old Trafford are not necessarily confined to getting the nod at No10 behind Robin Van Persie. Andy Hunter
• Match report: Bayer Leverkusen 0-5 Manchester United
• United's best days are still to come says David Moyes
• As it happened: our MBM report
• In pictures: the best images from the BayArena

10) Hart a headscratcher for Pellegrini

Can Manuel Pellegrini reinstate Joe Hart now for Swansea City's visit to the Etihad Stadium on Sunday afternoon? The problem Manchester City's manager has is that Costel Pantilimon has done nothing wrong since replacing Hart and though the England No1 was competent enough in Wednesday evening's 4-2 win over Viktoria Plzen, beyond the visitors goals, which he could do nothing about, the 26-year-old was not tested enough to show precisely where form and confidence is. The concern for Pellegrini is that were he drop Pantilimon for Hart and the latter was to make yet another crucial mistake then where does he go? Does he leave Hart out again and turn back to a Pantilimon who would still be feeling disgruntled at being left out? Or does the Chilean continue with Hart at the risk of yet more dropped points? Questions, questions. Jamie Jackson
• Match report: Manchester City 4-2 Viktoria Plzen
• In pictures: the best images from the Etihad Stadium

• Bayer Leverkusen 0-5 Manchester United
• Manchester City 4-2 Viktoria Plzen
• Villas-Boas out to avoid Arctic chill
• Much more football news and comment 
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